| Author | Message |
|---|---|
 Gilgamesh8 |
Date sent: 2016/04/16 23:02:27
The purpose of tax is to provide money for the government to provide services such as protecting the citizens, enforcing and making laws, providing transportation, etc. On Mushroom Co., the staff do some of this, but they also have creative mode, making money more or less pointless. So the question is, where does the tax go? As far as I can tell, it simply evaporates. This would make tax nothing but theft from hardworking people who don't even have the luxury to pay only once a year on income. No, the total worth is taxed, not even just the daily income. If I had a million and I just sat on it, I'd be reduced to nothing fairly quickly.If the tax is to try to fix the economy, I still object. The problem is that we live in a world where there is an unlimited supply of materials, and because of the shop, an unlimited demand. Taxes will not fix this, only removing an unlimited supply and demand will (meaning as long as people have creative a real economy is impossible). I strongly object to tax, ANY tax, if the money just evaporates. If the tax goes to the staff I am more ok with it since they devote time as well as materials to the server and thus can't make money as easily, but I will have a followup statement if this is the case. |
 stojan44 |
Date sent: 2016/04/17 07:25:40
Oh gilgamesh. You're just wasting your time. Luigi OBVIOUSLY LLLLLLLLLOOOOVES taxes. So yeah. He said something about how taxes go to maintaining the server economy or something. Not sure. I usually ignore everything he says about taxes. |
 Chip_Bruh |
Date sent: 2016/04/17 07:42:55
Taxes were introduced in attempt to level out the server hierarchy, there is a tax threshold of £5000. The money that is taken in taxes is not put back into the economy, it is simply in place to prevent players from getting rediculously rich. |
 luigiofthebakery Moderator |
Date sent: 2016/04/17 08:08:54
The taxes are an attempt to make the economy more realistic. In a sense they go towards maintaining public areas such as spawn, the public shop, pathways, warps, etc. and services such as teleportation commands, faction commands and other commands. These are all subsidised by taxes. You may view these things as all being free but in a real economy they would all have a price. I could instead implement a price on commands, a price for using warps and tolls on pathways or for being in public areas, but that would be complicated and inhibit new players who start out with zero money. It would defeat the other purpose of taxes: to redistribute money from the rich to the poor through a progressive tax system.Some tax money also does get recirculated back into the economy through the lottery, rewards for voting for the server and the shop. |
 Sparqy Back-up |
Date sent: 2016/04/17 08:15:12
I had a 50% tax to pay when I had $1,600,000 that was earned, I don't understand how this is fair. |
 Kerochii64 |
Date sent: 2016/04/17 09:41:48
It really isn't, given that people have creative perms. |
Gilgamesh8 |
Date sent: 2016/04/17 19:12:46
@Chip:What is wrong with players getting ridiculously rich? Does it harm anyone? Does it take money from the poor? No, rather, once people get rich they start giving money away. I have done this often, giving thousands to random new citizens and defaults just to be nice. If keeping the cash is a struggle, I won't do it, because I can't afford it. @Luigi I understand the intent, but the effect isn't accomplished. As I said, there is no way to make a realistic economy when there is infinite supply and demand. The other problem is that the services provided aren't where the taxes go: the money just vanishes. If you want a real economy, you have to remove all creative mode and the server shop, and if you want to redistribute wealth, evaporating money isn't the way to do it. Like I said earlier, the rich will give money to the poor without being forced, and it isn't as thought the money taken from the rich goes to the poor! I would actually be on board if the tax went to the staff, though there should be a flat salary for their work and not a percent of all player money, and it should be paid less frequently. As it is, I view the current tax as little more than theft, and theft where not even the thief benefits. |
stojan44 |
Date sent: 2016/04/18 04:37:47
Finally! Someone smart enough to defy them |
luigiofthebakery Moderator |
Date sent: 2016/04/18 09:03:43
The more rich people get the less valuable money becomes and once again the people who are disadvantaged are new players who loose incentive to participate in the shop system. No, we shouldn't resort to a system where rich players simply give money to the poor at their own discretion because that's unrealistic. Money is instead redistributed through a progressive tax system that taxes the rich at a higher percentage that the poor, tending towards an equality. The object of taxes is not to create a real economy like you seem to think, of course that's not actually possible with the current server shop, but merely to add a degree of realism. It actually remedies the infinite demand from the server shop that creates infinite money by reducing the supply of money through "evaporating" it. Again, it remedies the infinite resources that create infinite wealth by restricting that wealth. That's one way you can view it. Another way to view it is the way I already mentioned in my previous post. Sure, you can think of it as simply disappearing, but that's only because money is created out of nothing at the server shop. Or you can think of it as money paid through taxes goes towards funding the shop's purchase of items. Thus the problem of infinite demand is fixed because the shop's demand is no longer unlimited, it is limited by the money paid in taxes, and thus the money circulating in the economy should remain relatively constant as long as leakages from taxes balance out all the other injections (mainly the shop, lottery and voting). That's what I mean by realistic. |
Gilgamesh8 |
Date sent: 2016/04/19 04:35:57
I can tell we have different economic perspectives, and if the politicians haven't agreed on it yet I doubt we will. I won't pursue the equality argument. My point boils down to this: There is no way to have a realistic economy with creative and the shop. I say this is fine, and why try to create any illusion of reality in an unrealistic system? Money retains its value because the prices in the shop are fixed. There's always the check that if people try to sell too high then people will just use the shop to buy. If people try to sell too low, they will be bought out and resold at the shop. This value is retained with one exception: the rich will stop valuing the money as much, won't care about it as much, and will freely part with it to the poor, who will value it highly until they themselves become rich. When I was a new player on the server someone gave me about 30000 just out of the blue, and that put me on my feet to create the infrastructure that now allows me to do the same. I hope other people will start weighing in on whether they thing this would happen, or whether they would do this. In real life I would never be able to afford a cubic meter of gold, let alone dozens or hundreds. I would never be able to own a town, or build beautiful buildings. I come to Minecraft because there I CAN do those things that wouldn't be possible in real life. Taxes are a part of real life I want nothing to do with, and that has no place in the formerly boundless lands of Mushroom Co. I understand your position, and that there pretty much no chance that taxation will be removed unless everyone in the server objects. As things stand, most people are content to just not pay the tax, and grumble on the few times when staff actually collect. If the tax was ever enforced, it might be a different story. I believe they called it "salutary neglect" back in the day. If tax went to staff in a reasonable amount, I would agree with it. Is there any way to do that? |
 thomasjones |
Date sent: 2016/04/19 15:46:38
Gilgames we could have a perfectly realistic economy while still having gm 1.there was a plugin installed that makes everyone have two inventory a survival one and a creative inventory.with the current pluggings it would be virtually impossible to get gm 1 in survival. Then all we have to do is get rid of the shop. |
Gilgamesh8 |
Date sent: 2016/04/22 04:35:16
Really? That's very interesting. In that case I'd say remove the /warp shop and make taxes go somewhere useful. The economy should fix itself if this happened. Even if tax went to a new players fund, with each player getting some starting money I'd be happier. I'd be happiest if taxes actually went toward server builds as well, and/or staff salaries. I can grudgingly accept the logic behind paying tax for /warp. However. Tax once a day? Proportional to the players net worth? Sure makes saving impossible. Can't we have more moderate taxes? Maybe we could go completely to banknotes. That would also enforce the tax far better and more fairly than could be done by staff. Just some thoughts and suggestions, and I hope it was useful in some way. |
 natman1549 |
Date sent: 2016/05/01 02:07:03
+1 from me, I agree with the LibrarianDOWN WITH THE TAXES |
 AstroDogs |
Date sent: 2016/05/01 02:46:37
+1 In a way.I agree there needs to be change. But taxes need to be there. The money should instead go to people at least under 500. New players, those who have given their money away, etc. Instead of giving it to the people who already have wealth. It needs to be fixed, not removed. Taxes can work, they just aren't right now. |
 AvoltageMC |
Date sent: 2016/05/04 05:22:10
+1^Astrodogs, I believe that is the premise of socialism. not saying it's good or bad, just stating a fact. |
stojan44 |
Date sent: 2016/05/04 08:18:25
+1 to astro. |
 Harvey |
Date sent: 2016/05/04 16:10:11
Like the benifit system in england |
thomasjones |
Date sent: 2016/05/04 19:30:24
^^ |
