Opinions of the community

Author	Message
CaptainSpaceSheep	Date sent: 2015/08/07 06:50:42 Opinions of the community By Spyro0104 (CaptainSpaceSheep) Donator+ I have created my post to see everyones opinions of the server's community and the players that it consists of. Personally, I think the server, how do I put it, happy "charm", has started to go away. I think that with the introduction of some new players, the community is, well I wont say bad, or wierd, but it is, different, I guess you could say. Anyone who has been on for as long as me on the server would understand this. Some of the new staff havent been the best choices, and some choices overall just havent met my expectations of the server. I cant argue with how good the server is, and the community is very addicting. I guess you could say, I liked the server better about 2 years ago. The community was fantastic and I loved it. But, overall, this is still my favourite server like it has been over the past 3 years and I can argue with anyone who disagrees.
L3genD	Date sent: 2015/08/07 07:24:54 Sorry for being one of the bad 'new' people. Although I am not new as I have been here for 6-8 months. +1 I agree with the server's community being a bit bad. When I first joined it was pretty good. Nowadays people swear, grief, raid and all sorts of bad stuff.
Vulturboy	Date sent: 2015/08/07 07:36:59 I think a major change is in order. Staff really could be better, as there are multiple players that would make better staff that aren't staff. And I was banned twice in a little over a week for "griefing", even though I didn't grief. And people need to get some respect and common sense, calling someone the n-word in chat isn't right. Even if you are black. The community could do some things to improve.
creeper1538	Date sent: 2015/08/07 09:18:49 vultur is right the staff could be better as a lot of them are very inactive
stojan44	Date sent: 2015/08/07 10:45:36 I remember the first time i joined...i was greeted by speedy and creeper. Back at that time wowman was uhh...well wowman was 'hated'. I remember when i met happyfarmer and loki. The server always had like 20-40 people online. But i feel like its starting to downgrade. Speedy isnt on alot. Happyfarmer is gone. Creeper isnt on like she used to be. Things change. Change isn't always good. But we have to accept it.
Wowman2002	Date sent: 2015/08/07 13:19:21 okay.. so... 95% of the time there are arguments, the justice system is terrible, some of the staff are abusive & rude, the ones that aren't are inactive. Woot woot!
Helperforever	Date sent: 2015/08/07 16:57:58 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Vulturboy	Date sent: 2015/08/07 19:16:51 ^^^
Helperforever	Date sent: 2015/08/07 21:54:50 60% of the community SUCK about 20% is on and off with the good and bad / hate and like , the other 20% is fine
JordanJBBlack	Date sent: 2015/08/07 22:29:00 I remember I joined and I was liked....then I committed my felony.
Beetlejuice71	Date sent: 2015/08/07 22:53:19 I agree with Jordzz And if the problems arent fixed I (and many others) will leave the server. This is the kind of problem I'm talking about "I griefed 1000000 blocks, may I be unbanned now?" "Unbanned"
Romaq	Date sent: 2015/08/08 04:42:28 I played on a text only Multi-User Character Kingdom (MUCK) known as Redwall MUCK. It had an interesting set of rules. You can read the rules directly on http://rwmuck.limitless.org/rwmuck/helpmain if you wish. I've taken the rules as directly as I could and worded them for use here, and you may read it on http://webbcraft.co.uk/forum/read_topic.php?id=2203 and comment there. The way to fix the problems mentioned with sucky players are having a very few, very clear rules and being heavy on enforcement. Another way to fix the problems is to fix the STAFF. A way to fix the staff would be enforcement of a "staff-abuse" rule. To quote what I posted in Rules Suggestions: The penalty for Staff-abuse will be termination of the staffer from this system in any capacity both on the server and in the forums in any capacity, as player or staffer. The cool thing with Redwall is that as staff got attitude, Otter (the server owner) would abuse the staff, the staff would quit, leave or get banned, and players flocked to the server and it grew. Who'd have thought it? Staff was selected on the basis of who was doing the work without the power AND NEVER ASKED FOR THE POSITION. In fact, the way to ensure you did NOT ever get selected as staff on Redwall was to ASK for the position. The more they asked, the less they were considered. People who were given "staff" permissions were people who did the work without special powers. And let's face it, most of what staff does or needs to do, they really don't need or use special powers for ANYWAY. Those who were well behaved and doing the job without special powers were given special powers to do what they were already doing, only more effectively. And all without lying on forum applications, voting by other players who happen to be your friends and want to be "friends with (staffer) benefits", and so on. This encouraged the general player base to "act like good staff" aspiring to be granted the special powers staffers got to have, and all without the silly nonsense I see both on the forums and on the server. With only one catch: If you as a staffer use your special powers to "grief" other players, such as breaking their builds or taking stuff out of their inventory, or in context HERE, giving your "friends with (staffer) benefits" creative mode over-powered items, that staffer would be banned from the server FOREVER (a really long, long time). No second, fourth, fifteenth chance do-overs, be a player for a while again, rebuild the fan base and puke out another staff application for votes. BANNED FOREVER. After Otter got the reputation for regularly banishing unruly staffers, the player base felt comfortable and safe that the "friends with (staffer) benefits" game wasn't a game to be played on THAT server. If a "staffer" stopped "staffing" and wasn't playing on the server, their "staff" flag was NOT taken away. As more "staff" was needed to replace them, active players doing the job of absent staffers became the next crop of active, well-behaved, active staffers. Problem solved. And if an "absent staffer" came back and began playing again, they were welcomed and able to continue on as before. Not a problem. I really don't see what makes all this so hard to deal with. Let your "Yes" be "Yes", your "No" be "No". Don't let players decide what is "excessive", give them a fackin' measuring stick like "PEGI-16" or something. Take those kinds of decisions away from players so you don't get that "it isn't excessive if those were my first words as a baby and I haven't stop since" kind of player. It's like complaining about the cold when all you have to do is shut the freakin' door! And terminate "Staff-abuse". Terminate it with extreme prejudice. Be known as the server that abuses their staff instead of allowing staff to abuse their players.
MONKEYPAWNED	Date sent: 2015/08/08 05:15:53 Most have valid consensus of what's going on... I have been seeing the players getting away with far too much and suffer minimal punishment.... Perm ban on this server is just a cry whining thread away from unban ... Even when offending in the worse manner possible. I can honestly say I have been frustrated to the max and I have been holding back from putting some colorful words to some players for their actions. This is including some staff members who have been behaving like ass.... and I mean ass... If you don't like your job quit and let another step up and do the job you surely can't due... Staff who break rules should suffer a maximum penalty...Complete ban from server and forums...Players need to fear the system to the max... Donors need to be held to the fire and this includes citizens...remove their ranks and if they commit again perm ban....with no hopes of return...Getting sick of having to deal with spamming racist pigs because staff wants to log on all at once... well im going to stop here as I don't wanna bore any of you...good day
Romaq	Date sent: 2015/08/08 06:01:11 That is why staff who ask to be staff are the wrong people to have on your staff. That is also why staff who use their staff power to violate the rules must be BANNED FOREVER without second, fifth, twentieth chances. "Well, if you ban me my entire faction will quit!" Uhm... yay? Please? I guess it would be rude of me to muse how many in your faction are "alts", but take your personal toadies with you don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya! Staff that complain about being staff should have their powers revoked and never restored. Ever. That only makes sense. If you refuse to do the job when you are online, you don't need the powers that come with the privileges. But since being on staff is ALL ABOUT privilege and power, and nothing really to do with helping people, Luigi has the staff he permits. He's the only one that can decide if that is tolerable or not. Luigi's no Otter. Otter was interesting. People quickly learned if they had a problem, DO NOT appeal to Otter, because he was frightening and as likely to ban BOTH players for being idiots, or otherwise make incisive comments that humiliated both players into behaving or leaving the server. Players would comment on committing suicide. Otter would offer helpful comments on how to "get it done right" so there was no time for second thoughts, mistakes, or otherwise surviving the attempt. When the person considering suicide complained, he would remind them, "This isn't a suicide hot-line. Take your drama somewhere else, call a hot-line, or finish the job and quit bothering people coming here for entertainment. We are not here to massage your precious, bruised little ego. Get a life, or end it. I don't give a damn which." And so it was the players rejoiced. Nah... Luigi's no Otter, and I'm no Otter either. Anyway, if I'm busy I just let what's over Chat scroll. If I happen to notice and start mocking people, it's either that bad, or I'm not terribly busy. One way to at least have a bit of fun while enduring nonsense over General Chat might be to learn the fine art of verbally eviscerating people violating the rules without violating the rules yourself, except for the "be kind" rule which isn't generally followed on the server or in the forums anyway. Oh yeah, 1) Don't give rules you can't enforce, and 2) Don't give rules you don't expect to be followed. The thing about WebbCraft SMP, my expectations are already so low I'm not clear where there's any other server better, so I'll just deal with what's here until a) I can't stand it any further... and I was getting there with people /tp'ing to my location, b) I get banned... I *was* banned for objecting to people /tp'ing to my location, c) I become aware of another server that actually enforces rules more like the ones I "copied" from Redwall MUCK. Or d) I lose interest and stop playing. I'm still interested in playing, just too damned long-winded and typing here to actually be playing on the game. Silly me. :(
Humble	Date sent: 2015/08/08 10:25:29 You can set TP to "off" so that nobody can TP to your position. I learnt this after about a month (wish it had happened a lot sooner). My attitude towards things is much the same as Romaq's. Yesterday the chat was spammed for about an hour and all us donators could do was repeatedly /kick the spammer, who could just rejoin over and over again. (The general players don't have /ignore to deal with this nonsense either.) There were no staff online to deal with this. And while I appreciate that some people who ask to be staff aren't the best people to be doing the job... there's a reason why I haven't asked for staff. (In fact I've said I never want to be staff, ever.) If you're staff, a lot of the time you're not going to be playing the game, you're going to be dealing with people's problems. Which is fine if that's what you want to do. Me, I like to play, so I'm not interested in a staff position. I think the "promote people who haven't asked to be staff" thing is disingenuous at best. You're probably dumping a whole load of responsibility onto someone who doesn't want it.
Humble	Date sent: 2015/08/08 10:40:06 Also, after yesterday, can I "+1" this? "Getting sick of having to deal with spamming racist pigs because staff wants to log on all at once." Dunno about the last part but the spamming part seems to happen a lot. Can the staff have some kind of a schedule so the chat is kept in check?
Romaq	Date sent: 2015/08/08 16:14:33 As I understand it, you can't set TP "off" unless you cut checks to Luigi, so you have to pay not to be violated at whim by other paying players. /ignore... same. If you don't want to deal with someone else's bullshit over Comm, you have to cut checks. Power attracts the corruptible. People who seek positions of power reveal they are as potentially corrupt as the office they seek. The way it worked on Redwall is that if you did not want to be staff, you could refuse the offer, and some did. They were not just "made staff" against their will. Those who refused didn't want to risk being banned forever or lose the freedom they had as players. Those who actually did want the staff position revealed themselves as capable and willing to do the work without having the perks of power. They also had opportunity to watch as other staff stepped over the line and were banished forever for doing so. "Can the staff have some kind of schedule" Unless Luigi is paying someone to be there, he can't make them be there. If Luigi isn't using a liability shield, he personally could be sued and have to pay legal fees, and his assets are at risk, unless he is legally considered a minor in which case it would be his parents at risk. You don't just get a magic wand that comes with running a server that makes "helpful staff" appear at just the right time and work for free. Where people get that idea is beyond me. THAT is why you try to do two things: 1) Give players tools to prevent or deter problems, such as /tptoggle and /ignore without making them have to pay for it, and 2) Look for players who appear trustworthy, competent, and capable of helping other players without special flags or privileges, then give them power to do more and more easily what they are already known for doing. I have no idea why this has to be made so hard.
MONKEYPAWNED	Date sent: 2015/08/08 16:54:57 I agree with /ignore.......even /tptoggle should be for everyone......Donor's have proven to violate this respect of space... some even down right rude with it claiming land after tping to someone without asking in some cases in the past....I tp only when asked or when there is a request I can assist with... and when asked to leave I just leave. I don't understand why this is so hard for many? You don't go to someone's house and just head to the bedroom? Common sense should rule here... Goes back to what I keep telling people...just because you can do something doesn't mean you can just do it when ever you please....the rule of respect other players is the most violated rule...and has minimal punishment.
Humble	Date sent: 2015/08/08 16:56:55 Romaq - my impression was that /tptoggle was something citizen-ranked players had, but you're right, it's not. And I do agree that this and /ignore should ideally be privileges for every player, not just the donators. This one's up to Luigi. Given that there's no way that he can guarantee there'll be staff on if a spammer joins - nobody can! - I think these two things are pretty basic. (People TPing to me without asking first has driven me up the wall on other servers. I hate it.) I donate to every server I play on but I understand why other people might not be able to do that - not enough funds, not old enough to have a paypal account, etc. Too much of a "power imbalance" between donators and citizens splits the community. And that's a bad thing. (It's also why I think some of the recent changes are a very positive thing - limiting of "creative" mode for donators, etc.) Schedule is unrealistic, maybe, but at least having some staff who can be on during the daytime is not? I mean, there are usually 20-25 people on in the afternoon (UK time) in my experience. I don't think I've ever seen less than twelve people online at a time. Basically I agree with the vast majority of what you've said (except the "sued" bit. I mean, come on. It's a freakin' online game. Nobody's signing any contracts to play here, nobody is "buying" anything by donating, etc.) But other than that, I think you make a lot of good points. I agree totally on the types of people we want as staff. But they have to want to do it as well, obviously.
Humble	Date sent: 2015/08/08 16:57:41 Monkeypawned once again talks a lot of sense I feel.
Romaq	Date sent: 2015/08/09 01:09:35 On the schedule issue, unless you pay people, you can't "schedule" people. Cutting checks gets things done. On the liability issue, it doesn't matter that this is a game. "Stupid lawsuits are unlikely" is *NOT* the same as "Go ahead and sue me. The Liability shell I am using has no assets, so get a cheap lawyer because he'll be the only one making any money out of this." Is it unlikely? Sure! But particularly since the server and Luigi are British, and Britain has insane libel laws. https://youtu.be/lj_4ksUWyNI for example discusses the problem. But Luigi is the one who has to deal with it. Liability isn't my problem. And the only reason to bring it up is if he pressures "volunteers" to "scheduled times", that could present an opportunity for a "volunteer" to sue him for wage compensation as AOL volunteers did as discussed here: http://www.cjr.org/the_news_frontier/aol_settled_with_unpaid_volunt.php And AOL settled the lawsuit for $15 million USD. So trying to "push" volunteers to any sort of schedule is "ill-advised and risky" at best.
Helperforever	Date sent: 2015/08/09 03:48:18 Most of the community...
Romaq	Date sent: 2015/08/09 04:16:46 Wizard's First Rule in action.

Register or Log in to use the forum